Ghamdi 1st December 2008 - Tasawr-e-Khuda 1

Discussion in 'Ghamdi and ALIF' started by Hit Man, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. Hit Man

    Hit Man Moderator Moderator Siasi Karkun

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    Tasawr-e-Khuda

    <iframe height="450" src="http://www.friendskorner.com/zflash/embed.php?link=http://www.zshare.net/video/52132217114d7fb8/" scrolling="no" width="480" id="IFRAME1" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" ></iframe>

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2008
  2. syedakbar

    syedakbar New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    The ideologies of this man ghamdi is strange and do not correlate with those of muslims of pakistan. he does have a non pakistani surname ghamdi ( by the way what does it mean?), he does not believe in the second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. and Hazrat Imam Mahdi which is actually mentioned in the Ahadees. he also says that the battle of karbala in which Hazrat Imam Hussain and his family members were martyred was a mistake of Hazrat Imam Hussain. he also maintains that yazeed is a jannati.
    My claims about his statements are 100% true and i can give u proofs if u like, just log onto his website.
    Please do not post his programmes on ur website as this is an insult to the Muslim Ummah. Our media is compelled to do it only because they have to maintain the freedom of speech thing.
     
  3. landaleav

    landaleav New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    @syedakbar
    I've never read anything about "mistake of Hazrat Imam Hussain" and "yazeed is a jannati" in Ghamidi Sahib's books. Please forward the link to the book, if it is really true.

    @Hit Man
    Jazakallah brother for such a nice program, but I think this episode is the repetition of the first episode of "Ghamdi" with the new format.
     
  4. casper

    casper New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    @syedakbar
    please support your arguments with something concrete otherwise it will be just allegations.

    To me it seems that you have not heard his full arguments but are relying on what you have heard from someone else or have heard only bits and pieces. Please listen to the FULL argument then you can better understand his point of view, you can then also share your objections.

    In general, we are so much engrossed in listening to regular mullas, performing meaning less rituals in the name of religion and following highly politicized sermons that whenever some one ask us to "just think what we are doing"; it just does not seem "religion like" and we find it much easier to question his credibility instead.
     
  5. mansehrian77

    mansehrian77 New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    What if he has difference of opinion with other scholars on few issues. Most of the time he speaks with logic. There are only few from Pakistan who can be called Islamic scholars and he is one of them. I have seen him in few debates with traditional scholars and they have no response to his intellect. In one show , Dr. Israr was short of arguments infront of him on the issue of Islamic state.

    I have read and heard to number of Islamic scholars from all over the world including top names like Qaradawi and Al-azhar scholars and I think he is one of the great scholars of current times in the whole world. No one is as articulate as him(his special characteristic).

    I also do not agree with all what he says but difference on some issues should not make us to hate a scholar. I am into sufism , he calls sufism another religion but not islam but still I respect his knowledge and effort his putting for the cause of Islam.

    Unfortunately, mullahs for their own benifits would make you hate the scholars who are from other sect or who do not go along with traditional thinking. This is why adherents of one schools of thought hate the top scholars of another school of thought. We have lsot all ettiquetes of difference which were followed by scholars in early days of Islam like Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shaif and Imam Ahmed bin hanbal and others.
     
  6. syedakbar

    syedakbar New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    Dear Casper I don't think many of regular conservative mullahs followers use internet regularly. The point is that i am not one of them. If a person doesn't believe in the second coming of Hazrat ISA A.S. then whats the half or full argument to do with it. Anyways I am a responsible muslim and I understand that it is not allowed in our religion to indulge in tuhmat i.e. to state false and baseless allegations.
    After the responses i can view it seems that some fellow educated pakistanis have fallen into his trap or in more sophisticated words seem to be influenced by ghamdi in some way or the other.
    Thus this persuades me to explain u friends about him in a slow and gradual approach unless u might get offended.
    Please follow the link, mind u this is just a taster and in no certain ways proof of my earlier controversial statement.
    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15052
    After this I would like u guys to log onto his website al-mawrid.org and click into the section ASK A QUESTION and ask the guy directly if he believes in the second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. or not. IF the reply says that he does than fine I am a liar but if he says no then things become fishy which it will ofcourse! (he will definitely give strange reasons arguing what is in the QURAN and what is in the AHADEETH).
    After this our frequencies start to align and I go to the next step to expose him further.For that please do get in touch and inform me when u would like me to do that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2008
  7. cute muslimah

    cute muslimah New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    I think zakir naik is the best
     
  8. landaleav

    landaleav New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    Ghamidi Sahib's view on second coming of Jesus can be seen here:
    [media]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0wa8ybAX5ks[/media][media]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=V8d2haayLdY[/media]
    But I've never read anything about "mistake of Hazrat Imam Hussain" and "yazeed is a jannati" in Ghamidi Sahib's books. Please forward the link to the book, if it is really true because I think it is our habit to make things up ourselves and label to other people when we want to defame them.
     
  9. syedakbar

    syedakbar New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    dear landaleav I have interestingly come across ur posts in favour of ghamdi in paklinks which dates back to 2006.This means u r a strong supporter of ghamdi and consider him to be the right man to teach ISLAM. I won't argue about his views on beard and am refraining to make fun of his shortest beard in the world which is actually not even complete.
    As u r a strong supporter of ghamdi , would u please inform me and the rest of the people about his views on karbala and yazeed then? ur answer would be more than enough to support my claims!
    Then I would go ahead and expose him more!
     
  10. m kashif khan

    m kashif khan New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    Dear Syed Akber, As far as I recall Al Ghamdi is a tribe back in Saudi Arabia mostly live in Al Asser reign near Al Baha. Not sure of its origin but comparatively quite recently came in to media light after 9/11 as three of the hijackers were Al Ghamdi.
    As of the argument goes about "mistake of Hazrat Imam Hussain" there is A school of thought in Arabian countries specially Saudi Arab that sees it as more of political battle rather than religious one which I personally feel quite biter to be honest with you, can't confirm if he Perseus it though.
     
  11. NoToRi0uS

    NoToRi0uS |0|20u|) 2|3 |03|\||)|_| Administrative

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    am not fan of anyone but the link above patsed by you have nothing in it except a spread thread written by someone else without any reference.

    Remember 2 things.
    Don't go for sectarian conflicts at this forum
    & don't go without references.
    If you find something wrong in his book.
    Quote here page number, chapter number, & book name
    otherwise don't blame any one , by blaming 1 you are denying education of Islam at its Ist step.
    Wa,Salam
     
  12. sallumiya

    sallumiya New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    syedakbar
    ghamdi is not the first one to quesiotn the return of jesus. there have been scholars in history whose views were opp of the majority. only thing ghamdi has done is he has come in the public and most of the public is nto aware of islam quran and hadith in detail
    and how to approach them. and for ur kind information plz listen to israr ahmes sahab lecture " imam mehdi ka asal tassawur" he himself said that there not a single haidth in muslim and bukhari that states his second coming. his lecture was an academic one and in the end u can easily conclude that the arrival of imam mehdi is not an establised fact but it can be put to debate same is the case of return of jesus. quran is empty of his return and imam maliks muatta( first book of hadith) is empty of it
    one suggesiton to u beofre jumping to conclusions try to do some research and seee everyones point of view and then concldue rather than going by ur self desries and preconceived notions in ur mind
    salam
     
  13. landaleav

    landaleav New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    I totally agree!

    landaleav added 8 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

    Frankly speaking, I don't think that Ghamidi Sahib discussed this issue in any of his books. But I remember one of his students "Asif Iftikhar" in "Ghamdi" program on Geo saying that there is more evidence to believe that Hussain (ra) wanted to discuss the political matters with people of Kuffa, so that a final strategy is made. If he was to rebel against Yazid, he could have started from Medina and create a small state there. Secondly, there was no point of taking all the women and children with them if they were really going on a war. Apart from that, the Governor who confronted Hussain (ra) made a huge blunder, which split the Muslim Ummah till now.

    As far as "Yazid being Jannati", Ghamidi Sahib has stated many times that this is not our job to tell who is Jannati or Jahannumi, the criteria is mentioned in the Qur'an of 'Iman and 'Aml-e-Saleh. Any one who will fullfill this criteria, God will enter him in paradise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2008
  14. Nofel

    Nofel New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    The interesting thing in your post is that, you wrote "do not correlate with those of muslims of pakistan". Are you saying that if his views do not correlate with pakistani muslims than that argument has no standing.

    If my understanding is wrong please do correct me. and if it is correct than aren't you saying that we have a pakistani Islam.
     
  15. fammy23

    fammy23 New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    syedakbar

    "The ideologies of this man ghamdi is strange and do not correlate with those of muslims of pakistan. he does have a non pakistani surname ghamdi ( by the way what does it mean?), he does not believe in the second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. and Hazrat Imam Mahdi which is actually mentioned in the Ahadees. he also says that the battle of karbala in which Hazrat Imam Hussain and his family members were martyred was a mistake of Hazrat Imam Hussain. he also maintains that yazeed is a jannati.
    My claims about his statements are 100% true and i can give u proofs if u like, just log onto his website.
    Please do not post his programmes on ur website as this is an insult to the Muslim Ummah. Our media is compelled to do it only because they have to maintain the freedom of speech thing. "

    I have never heard of Ghamdi Sb, saying these things. But for the sake of argument if we accept these are his views then what is wrong with it? Beleiving in the second coming of Hazrat Isa (AS) or whether Hazrat Imam Hussain (RA) was on mistake to go to koofa, or yazid is jannati or jehanami, is not part of faith, and one can have different views on these issues.
     
  16. syedakbar

    syedakbar New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    Well well I guess there have been many comments here, so I will answer everyone one by one.
    First of all Kashif Khan-I agree that ghamdi is a tribe found in saudi arabia but the question that I have tried to raise is that why does this guy javed ahmed have a surname ghamdi. Originally he claims to be belonging from kakazai tribe and was born in sahiwal, punjab and ofcourse kakazai's are no way related to the ghamdi tribe.
    Secondly Notorious - I thought this is a good discussion forum and I don't think there is any harm in discussing Islamic personalities and so called Islamic scholars. This is definitely not a sectarian issue as ghamdi claims to be a non-sectarian personality, though ghamdi is against sufism and all the sects of Islam that are practiced by Muslims in Pakistan and all around the world except ofcourse Wahhabism.Also Notorious please before threatening anyone one on this site one should go through the views and understand the essence of discussion here. I have already offered everyone takig part in this discussion to ask ghamdi themselves about what I have claimed about his ideologies.
    Thirdly Sallumiya - u seem to be a strong aupporter of ghamdi ( the so called Islamic scholar with the shortest beard). Giving a reference of israr doesn't mean that he is right and if u have referred his name to support ghamdi's view than also try to find israr's not so good views about ghamdi and tell all the people here so that we can learn something from israr about ghamdi. A famous international personality Haroon Yahya (its his pen name) has discussed about the second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. and Hazrat Imam Mahdi in detail (www.harunyahya.org) and also has answered the claims of the so called Islamic scholars (which are very few) about their incorrect claims that HAZRAT ISA A.S. won't be coming.
    Fouthly Landaleav - I see that u agree with notorious's comments but again I thought that ghamdi and his bunch of supporters are non-sectarian people so how does this make a sectarian conflict.Also u havent yet asked ghamdi himself about his views on karbala and yazeed and have quoted his students views.I would again ask u to please for once be unbiased about ghamdi and ask him and tell us what exactly is his answer.Also regarding asif iftikhar's view that u quoted very easily states that Hazrat Imam Hussain (R.A.) went to kufa to discuss political issues- well who goes that far away from Medina Shareef to discuss political issues with all his family and sisters and bsisters children and brother's children? (stop beiing naive mate).The reason that he went out of Medina was that he didn't wanted Medina Shareef to become a battle place!
    Now about the thing that whether yazeed thinks that ghamdi is jannati or not - I would like to mention that there is a Ahadeeth that "the first person who conquers constantinopole from my ummah wil go to paradise" , now as constantinopole was conquered many hundreds of years ago so if u ask ghamdi who he claims this person to be and does he also claim that yazeed was in this particular army then u will get the answer urself from ur beloved ghamdi. I know that after the answer that u get from ghamdi will be the one what I claim u will still like and follow ghamdi because u have been sadly heavily influenced by him.
    Fifthly Dear Nofel - the reason I mentioned about Muslims of Pakistan is because this site is usually used by Pakistanis but in no certain terms do I claim that the mainstream Islam of Pakistan is different from The Islam followed by other countries.
    Sixthly Dear Fammy 23 - u seem to be the most naivest critic of mine.I agree PARTLY that believing in second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. and the coming of Hazrat Imam Mahdi is not part of faith of us Sunnis but Shias claim to be as part of their faith.
    Next I believe that the second coming issue should be straight forward that whether it is going to happen or not because when He comes people like followers of ghamdi will not morally and physically support Him and might support the opposite camp which will be equivalent to be sinful as they will be opposing a Prophet.There is already a Ahadeeth which states that He will come at a time when people will stop believing that He will come.
    Now to come to the point why I think that believing in his second coming is part of faith is because as True Muslims we have to believe in Quran and Ahadeeth!
    I thank all of u guys to take part in this thought provoking and healthy discussion.I hope that u will carry on taking part until we come to some final conclusion.Either me or my critics might be wrong. If its me, I will accept my mistake but if I am true then please next time don't follow a person blindly unless u are completely aware of his views, and the best way is to research about ISLAM urself rather than relying on ghamdi and then instead asking me to do research when u can't answer my queries.
    As promised in an earlier post by me I will slowly and gradually expose ghamdi with stronger and stronger evidence as I don't want to offend his strong supporters by telling everything the first day.But first I am trying to align our frequencies!
    c u later
     
  17. landaleav

    landaleav New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    Actually the reason has been published in an edition of Ishraq. If I recall it correctly, he was young, he wanted to choose a Takhallus but he couldn't find a good name. One time he read that Ghamidi tribe in the past broke a very important peace deal in Arabia. Ghamidi Sahib was impressed by this role of Ghamidi tribe and he started using "Ghamidi" in his writings which then later on became famous amongst his friends and acquaintances.
    Firstly, I am overseas and I don't have any direct contact of Ghamidi Sahib. A better idea would be for someone who have the access to the live Aaj TV, make a call on "Live with Javed Ahmad Ghamidi" and ask this question. As I can't watch Aaj TV, this exercise would be futile.

    But regarding that constantinopole thing, I dont' know what you are talking about. If you can present some kind of proof from Ghamidi Sahib's writing or video from tv-almawrid.org or youtube , it will really guide us.
     
  18. bluesmoke

    bluesmoke New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    As in the program about "Tawaur-e-Khuda". Baat ye nahin k kis ne kaha he...baat ye he k kiya kaha he..So the question is not about support of Ghamadi or any body else. The question is that: Is he presenting his views logically with reference with Quran and Sunnah. If you feel, its logical ...go for it. otherwise do research yourself and contradict him logically with refernce with Quran and Sunnah.
    Dont defame any one. Every one can have different understandings of Quran and Sunnah. Challenge the views (with logic) not the personality
     
  19. syedakbar

    syedakbar New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    haha Dear Landaleav u seem to be a good joker mate.The takhallus thing is quite funny but please whenever defending a so called allegation please mention the edition numer and page number or infact post some link next time.
    U seemed to be a bit confused, u say that ghamdi tribe broke a peace deal and ghamdi got impressed with it. how on earth can a Muslim be impressed by someother guys action of breaking a peace deal ! !!???lolssssssss. I thought ISLAM IS A MESSAGE OF PEACE.
    Anyways mate coming to ur query about the constantinopole thing I will repeat my point again. There is a Ahadeeth which fortunately ghamdi accepts (cos he rejects some of them at his own will) which states that whoever will be the first one amongst the Muslim Ummah to conquer constantinopole ( which is known as Istanbul nowadays presently in modern turkey ) will enter Jannah (paradise). This was a prediction by our PROPHET P.B.U.H.
    Now my point is that according to ur beloved ghamdi as yazeed was in that army so he enters Jannah as well.Although I would like to add that there is an Ijma among Muslim Scholars throughout Islamic History that this particular feat was achieved by Muhammed Fateh ( which was infact several years after yazeed died!).
    Now my friend coming back to ur query that ur direct contact with ghamdi on Aaj tv is impossible, well my friend I have earlier stated and asked u to go to al-mawrid website and click the ask a question box and get ur answer directly. This is a more wiser approach rather than wasting peoples money on phone and be kept on hold.

    Here is the beginning of ghamdi's hatred in ur heart.The following link will lead u to a critical analysis book against ghamdi written in urdu magazinepics123 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
    friends who can't translate get some help from educated Pakistanis who can read and understand my National Language.
    Please remember this is my first step and I will continue to expose ghamdi!
     
  20. commoner

    commoner New Member

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    Re: Ghamdi 1st December 2008

    @SyedAkbar

    Why is his name an issue, I wonder?

    "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet."

    A few facts about the conquest of Constantinople. Its not a matter of Ijma of Muslim scholars but a historical fact that Constantinople was conquered by Sultan Muhammad in 1453 AD some 800 years after yazid's death in 683 AD and not " several years after yazeed died!".

    "Here is the beginning of ghamdi's hatred in ur heart". Why do we have to hate someone we donot agree with, from the depths of our hearts. Lets learn to live with difference of opinions and views.

    And lastly can you please tell us the name of the book and the writer of the "critical analysis book against ghamdi written in urdu magazinepics123 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"
     

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